So, I'm very familiar with both GURPS and Bungie's Myth computer games. In fact, I made a mod for the Myth II computer game which makes Myth play a lot more like GURPS combats.
I've had GURPS Myth for a long time, and I have always wondered about the templates in it. Frankly, the templates and examples for the less powerful creatures and human characters, seem extremely inflated, to me. The stats for the major characters and powerful creatures seem fairly good in most cases, but the stats for the lesser creatures seem extremely overrated.
Skill levels also seem amazingly high. If everything has super-high skill levels (and other values), then it's really just inflating everything, and undermining the relative abilities of the types that should be impressively superior, because everything's basically hero-level.
A great example are Thrall (plodding axe-wielding zombies who make up most of the Dark armies and come in vast quantities), of whom it says, "As with all Myth undead, they reanimate without any of the skills or memories they had in life, but can be taught physical skills." The "Standard Thrall" listed on the same page is given an Axe skill of DX+5, for 32 points. So... they train for 64 years before being sent to battle with an axe and told to use all-out-attack? What?
Thrall, it seems to me, are the plodding, mostly-mindless, utterly disposable but inumerable sword-fodder of the dark armies, who win by numbers and almost never by competence. So while book has them at roughly:
ST 16
DX 7
IQ 8
HT 13
HP 21
Speed 5
2-hdd Ax/Mace +5 – 12 (all-out-attacks for 16) - 3d +2 cutting
(100 points)
Where I would say the “Standard Thrall” should be more like:
ST 13
DX 7
IQ 8
HT 13
HP 16
Speed 2
2-hdd Ax/Mace +0 – 7 (all-out-attacks for 11) - 2d +2 cutting
(0 points)
I would similarly “normalize”:
Standard Soulless – should NOT have 50 points in weapon skills – more like Spear 11-12, Spear Throwing 12-14. They should also probably not be Speed 6, as generally IIRC a Warrior in chainmail can outrun them.
Standard Maul – I wouldn't give the standard maul 32 points in Axe skill – rather 4 or 8. They're very strong and durable, but I don't see them as weapon masters. They're one of the most damage-shrugging units in the computer game, so if a Thrall has 21, these guys should have more than that, not 15.
Standard Ghol – Again crazy weapon skills with two at +6 and Throwing at +10. What? Typical ghols are skirmishers, not ninjas who have DX 9 but like 200 years' worth of training just so they can run around taunting and throwing random objects. My Standard Ghol would be more like DX 11 with Axe +1, Brawling +1, Throwing +1.
Standard Ghast – In the computer game, these guys are shambling dazed unarmed zombies with no particular skills, who are only dangerous when they outnumber you in a mob, and then only when you're unlucky enough to get stunned by the paralyzing slime. There's no reason for the Standard Ghast to be ST 18! And Brawling at DX +3 seems silly too. They should just attack with DX, and their Speed should be about 3 at best, probably only 2. GURPS Myth also says they can train 24 hours per day, but there was never a trained Ghast in the games – their purpose is to grow into Wights, who only need to take a deep breath and stab themselves.
Standard Dwarf Fighter – Given all the clumsiness that goes on with dwarves in the game, I don't think the standard would be DX 15, and I doubt they all have Piloting and Parachuting, and Myth Dwarves never use hand weapons.
Standard bre'Unor – 200 points for a standard guy who throws bones?
Standard Wight – doesn't need Knife at DX +3. ST 18 seems high – they never do anything but hide, sneak and suicide in the computer games. Speed 5 is again too high, especially given how important it is to not let them get anywhere near you.
Those aren't the only details I'd question, of course.
Berserk, Bowman and especially Brigand are all built on 150-175 points, and I would say that should describe exceptional examples, but not the typical example. I would say these are good models for hero-level PCs, but the typical members would have typical point totals, I expect more like 40-80 points for these.
The Mass Combat section also seems even further weirdly off in its Troop Strength (TS) ratings. It gives Berserks and Warriors TS 4 with usual Veteran quality for effective TS 6 (Bowmen are also TS 6), while Thrall get TS 11, usually green for TS 8.8. Dwarves are given TS 12. In the computer game, the point values for picking troops in multiplayer games are quite well balanced (as born out by massive multiplayer gaming – I played multiplayer Myth for many many years), and it's 1 for Thrall, 3 for Warriors, 4 for Berserks, 6 for Bowmen, 8 for Dwarves, very unlike the values given in GURPS Myth for TS.
Anyway, I'm curious if anyone here has actually played GURPS Myth (it seems like it could be a very good setting in some ways, especially if you didn't use the “standard” hero-powered everything examples for the common types), and if anyone has comments about the power levels.
GURPS Myth
I've had GURPS Myth for a long time, and I have always wondered about the templates in it. Frankly, the templates and examples for the less powerful creatures and human characters, seem extremely inflated, to me. The stats for the major characters and powerful creatures seem fairly good in most cases, but the stats for the lesser creatures seem extremely overrated.
Skill levels also seem amazingly high. If everything has super-high skill levels (and other values), then it's really just inflating everything, and undermining the relative abilities of the types that should be impressively superior, because everything's basically hero-level.
A great example are Thrall (plodding axe-wielding zombies who make up most of the Dark armies and come in vast quantities), of whom it says, "As with all Myth undead, they reanimate without any of the skills or memories they had in life, but can be taught physical skills." The "Standard Thrall" listed on the same page is given an Axe skill of DX+5, for 32 points. So... they train for 64 years before being sent to battle with an axe and told to use all-out-attack? What?
Thrall, it seems to me, are the plodding, mostly-mindless, utterly disposable but inumerable sword-fodder of the dark armies, who win by numbers and almost never by competence. So while book has them at roughly:
ST 16
DX 7
IQ 8
HT 13
HP 21
Speed 5
2-hdd Ax/Mace +5 – 12 (all-out-attacks for 16) - 3d +2 cutting
(100 points)
Where I would say the “Standard Thrall” should be more like:
ST 13
DX 7
IQ 8
HT 13
HP 16
Speed 2
2-hdd Ax/Mace +0 – 7 (all-out-attacks for 11) - 2d +2 cutting
(0 points)
I would similarly “normalize”:
Standard Soulless – should NOT have 50 points in weapon skills – more like Spear 11-12, Spear Throwing 12-14. They should also probably not be Speed 6, as generally IIRC a Warrior in chainmail can outrun them.
Standard Maul – I wouldn't give the standard maul 32 points in Axe skill – rather 4 or 8. They're very strong and durable, but I don't see them as weapon masters. They're one of the most damage-shrugging units in the computer game, so if a Thrall has 21, these guys should have more than that, not 15.
Standard Ghol – Again crazy weapon skills with two at +6 and Throwing at +10. What? Typical ghols are skirmishers, not ninjas who have DX 9 but like 200 years' worth of training just so they can run around taunting and throwing random objects. My Standard Ghol would be more like DX 11 with Axe +1, Brawling +1, Throwing +1.
Standard Ghast – In the computer game, these guys are shambling dazed unarmed zombies with no particular skills, who are only dangerous when they outnumber you in a mob, and then only when you're unlucky enough to get stunned by the paralyzing slime. There's no reason for the Standard Ghast to be ST 18! And Brawling at DX +3 seems silly too. They should just attack with DX, and their Speed should be about 3 at best, probably only 2. GURPS Myth also says they can train 24 hours per day, but there was never a trained Ghast in the games – their purpose is to grow into Wights, who only need to take a deep breath and stab themselves.
Standard Dwarf Fighter – Given all the clumsiness that goes on with dwarves in the game, I don't think the standard would be DX 15, and I doubt they all have Piloting and Parachuting, and Myth Dwarves never use hand weapons.
Standard bre'Unor – 200 points for a standard guy who throws bones?
Standard Wight – doesn't need Knife at DX +3. ST 18 seems high – they never do anything but hide, sneak and suicide in the computer games. Speed 5 is again too high, especially given how important it is to not let them get anywhere near you.
Those aren't the only details I'd question, of course.
Berserk, Bowman and especially Brigand are all built on 150-175 points, and I would say that should describe exceptional examples, but not the typical example. I would say these are good models for hero-level PCs, but the typical members would have typical point totals, I expect more like 40-80 points for these.
The Mass Combat section also seems even further weirdly off in its Troop Strength (TS) ratings. It gives Berserks and Warriors TS 4 with usual Veteran quality for effective TS 6 (Bowmen are also TS 6), while Thrall get TS 11, usually green for TS 8.8. Dwarves are given TS 12. In the computer game, the point values for picking troops in multiplayer games are quite well balanced (as born out by massive multiplayer gaming – I played multiplayer Myth for many many years), and it's 1 for Thrall, 3 for Warriors, 4 for Berserks, 6 for Bowmen, 8 for Dwarves, very unlike the values given in GURPS Myth for TS.
Anyway, I'm curious if anyone here has actually played GURPS Myth (it seems like it could be a very good setting in some ways, especially if you didn't use the “standard” hero-powered everything examples for the common types), and if anyone has comments about the power levels.
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